Brendan Heywood

@brendanheywood
Australia • Boulderer

Activity stream for Brendan Heywood

Activity stream for Brendan Heywood, configured from their own events. Events include updates, discussions and ticks.

Tue 4 Aug

, and commented in the discussion Removing a Boulder area at The Zen Garden and mentioned . • 9 days ago

started this discussion 4 months ago.

Removing a Boulder area

Brendan Heywood Is it possible to have an annotation that shows up on the map for an area to help define it's location because it's a confusing area. And I also need to remove a boulder area if you can use the annotation to show where it is. On the guide

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replied 4 months ago.

Hey Nick, there is no mean to locate an annotation zone on the map. What you can however do is locate a route with GPS coordinates. So locating one route per boulder usually allows precise location, even if the boulders are "annotations" rather than

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replied 3 months ago.

Ok cool, that solves that part for me. How do I remove a boulder then?

replied 3 months ago.

Actually, may have solved that problem by merging it with the parent area

replied 3 months ago.

Yes that is precisely how to get rid of any node. Merging it into sibling or next level parent.

For annotations, simply delete both title and content. The system will remove the "empty" annotation.

I just removed the single annotation that was there,

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replied 9 days ago.

Marc dM Maybe add this piece of information to the documentation on https://www.thecrag.com/en/article/documentingacrag

Was searching for "How to delete a sector" but could not find this part documented anywhere.

replied 9 days ago.

Hi Dominik, this is part of the merging & deleting article. https://www.thecrag.com/en/article/merging

It might not be easy to find yet, but there is an issue open to enable the search in the help articles at some point.

replied 9 days ago.

ah okay. Was first searching through Google and only found the other article. Then I searched in discussions in theCrag

Sun 26 Jul
Fri 24 Jul
Thu 16 Jul

worked a route and ticked 9 routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis and . • 2937 33 Meters 28 days ago

V2 R7 Boulder 4mGood

A sharp but good warm up. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V4 Hitchhiker BoulderGood

Cool move at half height. Another RL sharp route. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V1 R8 Boulder 4mVery Good — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

V1 R9 Boulder 4mVery Good — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

V3 Phenylephrine Boulder 5mGood

Exciting line with flexy rock and a high foot. — with Brendan Heywood

V3 Pseudoephedrine Boulder 5mClassic

Always fun. — with Brendan Heywood

V8 Body Darma Boulder 4mClassic

Next.... — with Brendan Heywood

V3 Dynosoar Boulder 3mClassic

This thing is great. — with Brendan Heywood

V3 The jaws of death Boulder 4mVery Good

This thing is scary. — with Brendan Heywood

V1 The Crack Boulder 4mClassic

This thing is freakin hard. — with Brendan Heywood

attempted a route and climbed 8 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis and . • 2799 6 Points 24 Meters 28 days ago

V0 R5 Boulder 2m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V3 R7 Boulder 4m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V1 R8 Boulder 4m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V1 R9 Boulder 4m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V8 Body Darma Boulder 4m

We tried super-gluing our finger tips which seemed to work pretty well consider how many attempts we had and didn't rage quit after the 3rd attempt. Its been yonks since I've been on this, I re-figured out how to hold the left crimp, the right is still fairly painful. — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis

V3 Phenylephrine Boulder 5m

I did the start to this a new way about 1m left, left hand on the high curved gaston, right right step and then beastly press through. I did the move but couldn't then link it to the top. Did the normal way — with Ben Vincent

V3 Pseudoephedrine Boulder 5m — with Ben Vincent.

V3 Dynosoar Boulder 3m

Had a couple throws at this, but was pretty tired and tips were sore so my heart wasn't really in it — with Ben Vincent

V1 The Crack Boulder 4m

But then I found some energy for working the sit start to this crack. I kinda thought I'd done this back in the day, it's a super burly layback and if you can get through the first 50cm then it eases up. First go I did maybe 4 moves and was totally thinking I'd get it again the second time, and then it just shut us both down. Had a bunch of goes. Sit start might be more like V4-V6 as a layback, maybe less using some inverted offwidth foot jams and chicken wings if you can figure it out — with Ben Vincent

Mon 6 Jul
Sun 5 Jul

updated an area at Ebor Gorge. • 5 weeks ago

Updated the area Pub Buttress.
Updated node location.
Sat 4 Jul

attempted 2 routes and ticked 10 routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned and Thor Burey. • 3165 5 weeks ago

V3 Dagobah Boulder 10mMega Classic

Very very high quality. One of those routes that you could do laps on and stil enjoy. Good on the skin and a great one to warm up the body. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V3 Dyno or do not dyno Boulder 2mVery Good

Looks a long way but much closer than you expect. Skippy had a great and very unexpected mid-mantle stack. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

The mantle project Boulder 1mVery Good

obvious mantle practice and an absolute ab burner — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V5 Swingers Club Boulder 5mMega Classic

OooWee this is so good. Felt great on this today and got it second go with Benji's new beta. A solid pad base helps the psych and you can't underestimate the barn door potential to send you past and above the pads on this one. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V3 Pan sweater Boulder 5mVery Good — with Brendan Heywood, Thor Burey.

V3 Baby Yoda Boulder 6mVery Good

A total low-ball juggy traverse. Why not build some endurance while you're bouldering....? — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V2 Baby Yoda's Swamp Bog Boulder 6mVery Good

And then why not extend that endurance route to include some DWS? ;-) — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V2 Face hugger Boulder 5mClassic

Great sequence of holds and interesting moves. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V2 Neomorph Boulder 3mGood

A wee bit loose and grassy but some cool moves and a thought provoking top out. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V3 Predalien Boulder 4mVery Good

Better and much cleaner than Neomorph. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V5 Sunset Aliens Boulder 8mClassic

A solid finish to an interesting problem. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

V6 Vulcanology Boulder 4mMega Classic

Thought we'd have a few throws at this under headlamp to finish. Several very close attempts later it was Vulcanology that finished us. — with Brendan Heywood,Thor Burey

Thu 2 Jul

edited some areas, some routes and some topos at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned . 655 6 weeks ago

Updated an annotation in the area Private sector.
Added annotation.

This wall faces onto the main private sector wall opposite 'Yoda' and some quality bouldering

Updated annotation.
This wall faces onto the main private sector wall opposite 'Yoda' and some quality bouldering This quality bouldering wall faces onto the main private sector wall opposite 'Yoda'
Updated an annotation in the area Private sector.
Updated an annotation in the area Private sector.
Added annotation.

On the north end on the other side, and almost under, the waterfall is a great little bouldering area only accessible during extended drought.

Created the route V3 Baby Yoda.

Added personal stars ''.

description

Step over the end of the pond and start on good jugs, swing under and then link it up left all the way to 'Pan Sweater'

Route history.
2 Jul 2020First Ascent: Ben Vincent
Created the route V2 Baby Yoda's Swamp Bog.

Originally named 'Do. Or do Not.'.

description

Start on the dry waterfall, then step around and a slopey traverse over the water, and possibly link into 'Baby Yoda'

Route history.
2 Jul 2020First Ascent: Ben Vincent
Created the route The mantle project.
description

Ridiculous contrived start hanging from your toes on the lip with your hands on the crimp in the back of the roof. Somehow end up on top

Created the route V5 Sunset Aliens.

Originally named 'Chestburster'.

Changed style from 'unknown' to 'boulder'. — Added personal stars ''.

description

The spicy extension finish to 'Facehugger', continue from the rail up and right and top out

Route history.
2 Jul 2020First Ascent: Ben Vincent
Created the route V2 Neomorph.

Changed style from 'unknown' to 'boulder'.

description

Sit start on the good jug in the middle of the wall and then directly up

Created the route V3 Predalien.

Changed style from 'unknown' to 'boulder'.

description

Shared start with Neomorph then head up almost 1m to the right

Updated the route V5 Swingers Club.
Edited route history.
8 May 2020First Ascent: Benjamin Dutaillis
Updated the route V2 Face hugger.
Updated beta description.
Sit start and climb up and right as the ground rises, topping out past the shrub. Sit start and climb up and right as the ground rises, finishing on the far right on the large rail
Edited route history.
29 Nov 2018First Ascent: Thor Burey

Named for the seething mass show of spiders and eggs in the wide groove past the rail

attempted a route and climbed 10 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned . • 3104 3 Points 6 weeks ago

V3 Dagobah Boulder 10mVery Good

Warmup, almost got it first try,flash pump out literally an inch from the last hold. Got it second go — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V3 Dyno or do not dyno Boulder 2mVery Good

Did the dyno and then had a pretty funny unexpected stack mid mantle — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V3 Pan sweater Boulder 5mVery Good

Such an ace route, first go — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V3 Baby Yoda Boulder 6mVery Good

Almost got the flash, one flash pump after another probably isn't the best way to warm up — with Ben Vincent,Thor

The mantle project Boulder 1mVery Good

Brutal fun — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V5 Swingers Club Boulder 5mMega Classic

Perfect setup with 6 pads. Had a couple goes and fairly consistently getting to the same high point as before. Ben sent it which ramped up the stoke, I taped up my right ring finger which I think helped. Just managed to keep bumping my left hand as far as possible, got the right toe pulling hard and then just desperately jabbed it up and to my complete surprise stuck it. Woot! I am so super stoked with this send and this route is totally ace — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V2 Face hugger Boulder 5mVery Good

So good have such a long and varied sequence — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V2 Neomorph Boulder 3mAverage

Nice start but a little gravelly and grassy topout — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V3 Predalien Boulder 4mGood

Was getting pretty juiced by this stage on dusk — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V5 Sunset Aliens Boulder 8mClassic

I was pretty cooked and couldn't hold the thing crimp so I worked dynoing to the jug and was about an inch away. I might be able to stick the less good lip just under the jug — with Ben Vincent,Thor

V6 Vulcanology Boulder 4mClassic

Was totally wrecked after a big day, we almost didn't stop but Ben was keen. After he had a couple goes I mentally geared up and had a solid cracker of an attempt, essentially did the crux, got my foot placement perfect, and was rocking over into the top out and just choked. Has another 4-5 goes but none quite as good and was then just smashed. Froth! — with Ben Vincent,Thor

Wed 1 Jul

Seth Bleazard, and Kush Khandelwal commented in the discussion Can you print the HTML guides? at Trinity Arêtes. • 6 weeks ago

Seth Bleazard started this discussion about two years ago.

Can you print the HTML guides?

replied about two years ago.

Yeah sure, but you may be better off printing the PDF's instead but either is fine

Kush Khandelwal replied 6 weeks ago.

Brendan Heywood Seth Bleazard do you folks have any kind of guide to the area? Trying to head there this weekend. Thanks much!

Sun 28 Jun

attempted a route and climbed 7 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis. • 2725 6 Points 6 weeks ago

V2 Open up and say Boulder 3mClassic

It's so fun but never trivial getting back on this, might need a grade bump — with Benji Dutaillis

V1 Silent scream Boulder 2mGood

Also great, (but man who graded this stuff? oh yeah, hhmm) — with Benji Dutaillis

V3 Soft palate Boulder 3mGood

Great little traverse, not a gimme — with Benji Dutaillis

V3 Left Tonsil Boulder 2mGood

Powerful and quite bunched, probably easier if you are shorter — with Benji Dutaillis

V2 Auxiliary inversion BoulderVery Good

We tried this a few more obvious ways which felt doable, but unlocked it with and inverted sequence — with Benji Dutaillis

V4 Benji's wall Boulder 4mGood

Off balance with marginal knee scums to hold you in. A bit of ape helps — with Benji Dutaillis

V4 Shawarma Boulder 3mClassic

Had a couple goes on dusk. As always it felt super fingery at first but then I relearnt it and did the crux twice but no topout — with Benji Dutaillis

V2 Dr Nefario Boulder 2mGood

Thrutchy goodness — with Benji Dutaillis

edited an area, some routes and some topos at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis. 620 6 weeks ago

Created 6 routes and 4 topos and updated 1 area and 2 topos - full details.

Fri 26 Jun

updated some areas at Upper Gara Gorge. 60 6 weeks ago

Updated the area Bonsai Boulder.
Updated node location.
Updated the area Mad World Boulder.
Updated node location.

attempted a route and climbed 5 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis and . • 3279 6 weeks ago

V4 Palm Sugar Boulder 3mClassic

I still think this thing is high quality, despite the snickers coming from those other two..... — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V1 Backfoot Bear Hugger Boulder 3mGood — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

V5 Mad World Boulder 2mClassic

Benji found an additional little hold which made the last move more achievable (and at least a grade easier). — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V4 Ocun's Last Stand Boulder 2mClassic

You don't just waltz up this thing. Had a couple of goes and thought I save my arm and leg skin. Still love it. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V6 Ruby Princess Fiasco Boulder 3mClassic

Mucked around on the start of this looking for an extension. Seemingly possible. Sasha could do it. — with Benji Dutaillis,Brendan Heywood

V6 Unknown Boulder 4mClassic

Was pretty happy to get up this. Dug deep and recalled some distant beta memory from the recesses. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

Tue 23 Jun

JSBC, and Tim Nicholson commented in the discussion Guide at Lake Leslie. • 7 weeks ago

JSBC started this discussion 10 months ago.

Guide

I noticed the guide for Lake Leslie is in Chinese and won’t let me log in being a Chinese account. Does anyone have the Leslie guide in English ?? Looking to get out there...

replied 10 months ago.

Looks like qurank is completely dead. All the info that was on qurank is mostly moved over to theCrag anyway

JSBC replied 10 months ago.

Yes I see that, but that’s incorrect- not all the information has moved onto the crag. There is no photos- there is no topo and their is no descriptions. Cheers

replied 10 months ago.

The chinese page is random, I would not put your password anywhere near it.

An archive of the guide is here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170429084913/http://www.qurank.com/guides/Guide_LakeLeslie.pdf

That can't be relied on, it's better to just move

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JSBC replied 10 months ago.

Thanks Brendan!! Looks like a futuristic spot for QLD boulders.

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

I'm heading out that way next week guys. I'll photograph as many boulders as I can and load them up, and we can start working out which problems go where. I remember a few from ages ago

JSBC replied 8 weeks ago.

Bloody hell we appreciate that a lot mate. Would love to head out there soon

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

Pleasure mate. Dam levels look way low, so all those tasty boulders in the dam field should be good to go.

JSBC replied 8 weeks ago.

Dam (literally) might have to head out there very soon then

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

For sure, do it. I'll be around the Stanthorpe area from mid week through the weekend, let me know if you're about. From memory, there's not a vast amount of really good stuff at Leslie, but a lot of fun things and three or four quality harder lines

Tim Nicholson replied 7 weeks ago.

I only had time to cover the Dam sector this trip, but I've added photo topos for everything, and tried to match things up with the original guide. I've added a couple of things in from personal memory as well. I was a bit hazy on the line for a couple of

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Tim Nicholson replied 7 weeks ago.

Also worth noting that there were an absolute fuckload of little paralysis ticks in the grass out in the dam field. If you go out there, I'd recommend walking in along the beach, put your stuff on a rock at least 1m above ground level, and check yourself

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Sun 21 Jun

updated an area and some topos at Upper Gara Gorge. 210 7 weeks ago

Thu 18 Jun

logged 8 ascents from the past at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned , Thor Burey, Alan Ezzy and Benji Dutaillis. • 3163 8 weeks ago

V5 Ossuary Boulder 3m — Thu 4th Jun 2020Classic

Dabbed on my first 'send' but well called out by Skip and Benji. Thanks boys. Very burly finish. Great to get on the send train and get it dab free. — with Benji Dutaillis,Brendan Heywood,Alan Ezzy,Thor Burey

V0 E10 Boulder 3m — Thu 4th Jun 2020Good — with Benji Dutaillis, Brendan Heywood, Alan Ezzy, Thor Burey.

V0 E12.5 Boulder 3m — Thu 4th Jun 2020Good — with Benji Dutaillis, Brendan Heywood, Alan Ezzy, Thor Burey.

V2 E11 Boulder 3m — Thu 4th Jun 2020Good — with Benji Dutaillis, Brendan Heywood, Alan Ezzy, Thor Burey.

V0 E3 Boulder 4m — Thu 4th Jun 2020Very Good — with Benji Dutaillis, Brendan Heywood, Alan Ezzy, Thor Burey.

V1 E6 Boulder — Thu 4th Jun 2020Very Good

V5 E7 Boulder 3m — Thu 4th Jun 2020Very Good

A powerful undercling and a shitty foot finally got me through this. Thor waltzed up it like a trooper! — with Benji Dutaillis,Brendan Heywood,Alan Ezzy,Thor Burey

V7 Tall Arete Boulder 5m — Thu 4th Jun 2020

Always wanted to get on this and today we had both pads and pysch. The psych died down after a few attempts. I think we probably spent ourselves on Ossuary.... I think it's all there but is pretty committing on poor feet and a very small crystally edge. According to Skip Dan did this with one pad.... we had 6 and I wouldn't do it with less. — with Benji Dutaillis,Brendan Heywood,Alan Ezzy,Thor Burey

Fri 12 Jun

Nick Foulds edited some areas, some routes and some topos at Toohey Forest and mentioned and Tatiana Proboste. 1085 8 weeks ago

Created 2 areas, 4 routes and 4 topos and updated 3 areas, 3 routes and 1 topo - full details.

Nick Foulds started this discussion 8 weeks ago.

Has everyone else done this as it sounds in the description? Or would you think the description "Start in Left sidepull and R hand in roof crimp/pocket then move to the rail and up to juggy sloper before finsish" would be more appropriate? I think I may have done an alternate start if not.

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

I started left hand in the low juggy sidepull. I could *just span to the slopey rail from there, bit tensiony to get matched. Can't remember where I had my right hand to start

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

So yes, your description makes more sense 😀

Nick Foulds replied 8 weeks ago.

Ace thanks Tim, I will update the route and the line on the topo accordingly. Also did you think V5 was good or worthy of V6?

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

Good question Nick, when I finally got a really good crispy morning, V5 felt about right. It does definitely feel harder when conditions aren't prime. I'd say V5 is right personally, if you choose the right day

Nick Foulds replied 8 weeks ago.

I found the difficult was more in the 'not dabbing' when moving from under the roof to do the move up to the slopey jug. For me that didn't feel like a weather/temp dependent issue. Will other people that have climbed this be seeing the convo in their threads? Wondering about how to get a general consensus about it!

Tim Nicholson replied 8 weeks ago.

I think they should see it. Not sure quite how that works. Thanks for your efforts mate

Mon 8 Jun

dogged a route and climbed 2 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis. • 2117 9 weeks ago

15 Get Nuked Trad 7mVery Good

Benji getting some trad practice. This is a great route to learn trad placements on, bit of spice on the top out — with Benji Dutaillis

23 Lean Cuisine Mixed trad 7m, 2Classic

I'd forgotten how good this route is, perfect rock, big dyno move (couldn't make it) or alternate left sequence — with Benji Dutaillis

25 Bullet with Butterfly Wings Sport 7m, 4Very Good

Top half is moist, and pretty overgrown. Got to jug after second bolt — with Benji Dutaillis

Sun 7 Jun

updated an area at Barden Ridge. 60 discuss 9 weeks ago

Updated the area Barden Ridge.

Changed name from 'Barden Ridge CLOSED' name 'Barden Ridge'.

Updated beta description.
Barden Ridge is another This area is CLOSED due to new restrictions imposed by the Sutherland Shire Council stating that " The features that make a good climbing crag are also the characteristics of a good Aboriginal shelter. A good shelter provides protection from the elements and is dry when it rains. A level earthen floor makes for a comfortable place to sleep. If the sandstone surfaces are hard and not crumbly then it will be more suitable for artwork and hand stencils." This is the law, failure to follow these laws will only result in more crags being closed.

Shire Suburban crag fest with a dozen middle grade micro routes. This crag has one one minute access from your car and great views. Watch out for snakes in summer. This joint has been climbed on for many years and I first visited in 1987. Many routes were bolted by Barnesy but they have probably already been done, just as the all those recent routes on the Right end.

Jake Delaney started this discussion 9 weeks ago.

Hey mate, just wondering why this went from being closed and preserving Indigenous heritage to be re-opened? I've seen this happen with a few Shire crags when scrolling through all the comments - just wondering what it all means.

Thu 4 Jun

edited some routes and some topos at Upper Gara Gorge. 365 10 weeks ago

Updated a topo for Catacombs.
Created the route V5 Ossuary.

Originally named 'Catacomb right'.

Changed name from 'Catacomb right' name 'Ossuary'.

description

As for 'Catacomb roof' until the middle crimps, then bust right and traverse through burly underclings saving enough juice to dyno to the good nubbin.

Updated the route V7 Tall Arete.

Changed route grade from 'V6' to 'V7'.

Added beta description.

Nice and tall arete just east of catacomb roof. Pic was taken prior to Dan Honneyman scrubbing it. Not sure of the name either. Grade should be close.

Updated beta description.
Nice and tall arete just east of catacomb roof. Pic was taken prior to Dan Honneyman scrubbing it. Not sure of the name either. Grade should be close. Climb the arete.
Updated the route V2 The Arete.
Updated beta description.

Climb the arete to the left of the corner. Mantel Mantle up on huge jug, then up arete.

worked 2 routes and ticked 5 routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis, and Alan Ezzy. • 3112 10 weeks ago

V4 Catacomb Roof Boulder 3m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis, Alan Ezzy, Thor.

V5 Ossuary Boulder 3mClassic

This is a beastly good little problem — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis,Alan Ezzy,Thor

V0 E12.5 Boulder 3m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis, Alan Ezzy, Thor.

V0 E3 Boulder 4m — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis, Alan Ezzy, Thor.

V1 E6 Boulder

Finished up E7 which is quite nice, and much better than up the crack — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis,Alan Ezzy,Thor

V5 E7 Boulder 3m

Had a few goes, was really great to see this get sent as I've never understood how it went. Ape and good footwork needed — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis,Alan Ezzy,Thor

V6 Tall Arete Boulder 5m

Hard, balancy, sharp, daunting — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis,Alan Ezzy,Thor

Wed 3 Jun

attempted a route and climbed 18 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis and . • 2803 10 weeks ago

V2 Mother's Milk Boulder 6mVery Good

If only this feature was lower down. And on a different rock. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V1 Crimp face Boulder 4mGood

A good footer problem. Unless you're Skippy and don't need feet ;-) — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V0 Offwidth arete BoulderAverage — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

V2 The squeeze test Boulder 1mMega Classic

If anyone ever gets through this I will pay to see it. I spent at least 10 mins stuck upside down in this thing. Everyone had a crack. Hilarious and totally worth it. Tight like a tiger. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V1 A bridge too far Boulder 6mGood — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

V1 Remembrance Boulder 2mGood — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

24 The Elver Escape Deep water solo 5mMega Classic

Very high quality. Very pleased I was peer presured into getting on this. Got wet on the first attempt. Save it for the last problem of the day. Undoubtedly a full traverse also awaits. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V2 No big deal Boulder 4mVery Good

This thing is cool and has a crap name. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V3 50 calories in 50 seconds Boulder 3mClassic

Ermagerd. Thrashed around taking skin off everything (mostly knees and hands) and no dice after 10 attempts. Benji also got close. Skippy rocks up and nearly flashes it. A very good battle. 50 calories = 2, Ben = 0 — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V2 Stale Pringles Boulder 4mGood

A nice distraction from the battle. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V3 Asian squat Boulder 2m — Thu 7th May 2020Very Good — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

V3 Sakata Fusion Boulder 2m — Thu 7th May 2020Very Good

V2 Extension start Boulder 3m — Thu 7th May 2020Classic

Got it. Felt pretty pumpy and slopey first time around but took my time on the second go and it was all there. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V3 Dyno or do not dyno Boulder 2m — Thu 7th May 2020Very Good

Looks an age away but is all there. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V5 Swingers Club Boulder 5m — Thu 7th May 2020Mega Classic

Got very close on first attempt. had high feet and hands and simply had to throw for the lip but couldn't take my eyes off my feet for fear of blowing...and then I did a big barn door and fell from the top on to no pads! Totally ninjared it though and didn't even break my ankles. stoked. Had a few more goes with pads better placed but I think my nerves were shot. Benji nailed it and found a key footer which takes away the dodgy barn door. Well done sir. — with Brendan Heywood,Benji Dutaillis

V3 Pan sweater Boulder 5m — Thu 7th May 2020Very Good — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

23 Deep Thought Mixed trad 25m, 5 — Sun 17th May 2020Classic

This route is freakin awesome! such good climbing and probably my favourite at the grade/style at Gara. Not sure why but upon rapping in and cleaning up a few holds (possibly hasn't been climbed in over 25 years?) we thought that this might be pretty straight forward. Not so. Was going okay until I blew the onsight by breaking off a hold. Had a few rests after that working some of the more committing moves. Had a second go on top rope and was stoked to get it clean. I'd love to get back on this and lead it clean from the ground up. Get on it, Gara classic! — with Benji Dutaillis

23 Deep Thought Mixed trad 25m, 5 — Sun 17th May 2020Classic — with Benji Dutaillis.

V2 The Great Sit-start Debate Boulder 3m — Thu 7th May 2020Good — with Brendan Heywood, Benji Dutaillis.

Sun 31 May

edited some areas, some routes and some topos at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned and Benji Dutaillis. 595 10 weeks ago

Made a topo for Tradies area.
Updated an annotation in the area Above the private sector.
Added annotation.

Another 10-15m downstream

Updated annotation.
Another 10-15m downstream Another 10-15m downstream from Remembrance Blocks and easiest approach is from there over the top.
Updated an annotation in the area Above the private sector.
Updated annotation.

East facing face on the north side of the creek as it bends

Updated an annotation in the area Above the private sector.
Added annotation.

A little alley formed under a massive boulder with fun handful of problems

Updated an annotation in the area Above the private sector.
Updated annotation.

Two quality problems but needs a quite low water level

Updated the area Above the private sector.
Updated node location.
Updated the area Tradies area.
Updated node location.
Created the route V2 Mother's Milk.

Originally named 'Mega jug'.

description

Committing solo up the wavy slab to the mega jug

Route history.
31 May 2020First Ascent: Ben Vincent
Created the route V1 Crimp face.
description

Delicate crimp slab and mantle

Route history.
31 May 2020First Ascent: Benji Dutaillis
Created the route V0 Offwidth arete.
description

Up the offwidth / arete

Created the route Death roof project.
description

High ball crack and face problem. Needs a rope

Created the route 24 The Elver Escape.

Originally named 'DWS face'.

description

Balancy slab problem

Route history.
31 May 2020First Ascent: Ben Vincent
Created the route V2 Stale Pringles.
description

Start on arete and chockstone, up thin crimps. Chockstone can be eliminated

Created the route V2 The squeeze test.
description

Sit start on finger crack deep in the dark. Then try to figure out which elbow goes where and how to simultaneously push while pulling and keep your core tense while also being relaxed. Impossible to grade, but worthwhile entertainment If you can't physically fit, a no hands bat hang finish is a worthy substitute.

flashed 2 routes and climbed 6 other routes at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned and Benji Dutaillis. • 2490 10 weeks ago

V1 Crimp face Boulder 4mGood

Apparently I didn't use the good hands, or the good feet, or any footers — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis

V0 Offwidth arete BoulderGood — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V1 A bridge too far Boulder 6mVery Good — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V1 Remembrance Boulder 2mVery Good — with Ben Vincent, Benji Dutaillis.

V2 The squeeze test Boulder 1mClassic

You don't 'work' this problem. It works you. It's so easy, but also impossible. — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis

V2 No big deal Boulder 4mClassic

Total quality — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis

V3 50 calories in 50 seconds Boulder 3mVery Good

Had a few goes and not really feeling the jams. The cups naturally worked again for me, and on the last go got a pretty deep arm bar past the bottle neck and only a couple inches off the glory hold. Kinda kicking myself I didn't give it more — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis

V2 Stale Pringles Boulder 4mVery Good

I did it with the chockstone in, then Benji eliminated a few things for a harder line — with Ben Vincent,Benji Dutaillis

Sun 24 May
+37 others

, Tom Reid, JSBC, Robert Mudie, , , , , Hadley Wood, foztr, Mark Gamble, Tom, Robert Guggenberger, , , , Scott Godwin, TeilzeitAbenteurer, , Gee Rad, Gino Lagazio, , Peter Betz, Leirn, , , Jack Cartwright, Macciza a.k.a. Macca, Daniel Gensemer, Phillip Booth, Tobias Auth, bobschi, , Javi, Climb that turkey, Sam Pfeiffer, adam palmer, Monty Curtis, and Matt Minus deleted 3 messages at World and mentioned Adam Ondra, Alex Megos, Kurt Albert † and Wolfgang Güllich †. • 11 weeks ago

started this discussion about a year ago.

Community profiles - redpoints marked as pinkpoints.

Putting this up for broader discussion. Mods? are inputting many community profiles and logging ascents for climbers as pinkpoints when I'm nearly certain they would be recorded as redpoints if the climber were recording the send themselves. Margo Hayes /

... more

Tom Reid replied about a year ago.

How do you personally differentiate between doing a route with the draws on as opposed to having them off? I think it’s perfect for this purpose- as it’s undoubtedly easier to send a route with gear on it.

replied about a year ago.

Thanks for the response.

The debate isn't about whether or not it's easier - I'd agree with you, it's harder to place the draws on lead. However, the majority of the global sport climbing community doesn't differentiate between a draws on, or draws off

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JSBC replied about a year ago.

Whilst at Ravens Crag in Banff national park a couple of summers ago- I asked A. Megos and his crew his opinion about redpoint verus pinkpoint and he said “Australians are the only ones in the world to care about it”.

Again out of curiosity, I asked Ondra

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Robert Mudie replied about a year ago.

I mean pink point is just the more factually accurate of the two if they left draws on. If they want to record it as a redpoint, sure go ahead, doesn't mean it wasn't a pink point.

I think the community managed profiles are dumb anyway.

replied about a year ago.

"claims they made the first redpoint - because Adam Ondra pinkpointed the route - how do you think that would be received?"

Ha. Personally I would salute them.

replied about a year ago.

Americans call toilets (without baths in them) bathrooms. So it doesn't surprise me that they would also fail to differentiate between pink point and red point climbs.

Australia should continue to maintain the standard, and the differentiation... and

... more

replied about a year ago.

I'm not trying to debate about pinkpoint vs redpoint as much as it's a debate about the ethics of recording other people's send using a tick type that they wouldn't use themselves.

Notably, the 'ethic' hasn't been applied evenly across the site, as

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replied about a year ago.

I was wondering if leading on pre-placed trad gear counts as pink point (at least in Australia), or red point...

replied about a year ago.

Good question, Cris!

replied about a year ago.

FTR, I would record trad with pre-placed gear as a pinkpoint. However, that's not really the discussion point I'm trying to get everyone's thoughts on. It's more the issue of recording someone elses sends on a public profile in a way that the person would

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Robert Mudie replied about a year ago.

But the difference between the onsight thing and the pink point thing is that that is a difference of opinion. But if they do a route with pre-placed draws and say it isn't a pink point, then they're just wrong. A pink point is with gear hung, there is no

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replied about a year ago.

Well, it's a difference of opinion on the definition of redpoint, rather than pinkpoint. We know the definition of pinkpoint. The difference in opinion would be that a redpoint can have draws hung or not hung.

The recording of another climbers send as a

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replied about a year ago.

I really don't agree with Alex Megos and Adam Ondra that nobody cares about the distinction between pink- and redpoint. I do but I'm not a pro athlete with international standing. That's why nobody is listening to me IMHO the styles are not equal

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Robert Mudie replied about a year ago.

So saying it's a red point is either wrong or encompasses pink pointing (depending on your definition). In the second case calling it a pink point is just more accurate. If it's a pink point it's a pink point, regardless of what they would call it, is all

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replied about a year ago.

I agree with Kai's first paragraph, but wrt his/her second paragraph - and Jackson's issue - why aren't climbers simply logging their own climbs?

Monty Curtis replied about a year ago.

Jackson - you are spot on. The term redpoint is almost universally used to describe an ascent with or without preplaced draws. Many of the hardest routes in the world have permadraws anyway meaning a draws off ascent is impossible. Can anyone shed light on

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replied about a year ago.

Thanks for this very insightful discussion - I think it is about time to have it. I think there are multiple aspects to this thread and I try to put my personal thoughts here:

  1. Community Profiles: we are aware that logging someone else's ascents
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Tom Reid replied about a year ago.

Well after reading the thread it sounds like it’s just Aussie climbing culture that teaches the term, and now that it’s a part of my way of thinking I kind of like having it as an option! Even just for sentimental value, or my own personal records.. In

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replied about a year ago.

Tom - I'm definitely not advocating for the removal of pinkpoint. I think that it should stay - climbing does not need to be a homogeneous culture. Part of the debate over ethics is what makes the culture what it is, and without it, things would be a bit

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Hadley Wood replied about a year ago.

Jackson, I understand what you are saying about attracting more international attention by aligning this site's tick styles with that of the global climbing community - however I think that the difference in tick shift between a redpoint and a pinkpoint is

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foztr replied about a year ago.

I would sooner like to see those creepy community-managed profiles removed!

If a pro ever chooses to make an account of their own, they should tick things the way they see fit, and (Australian) viewers of their profile should take their personal

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Mark Gamble replied about a year ago.

Sorry Jackson,

definitely disagree re the "have to make red points and pink points equal...."

Each country, each nation on Earth has its own Ethnics and traditions that are unique to that country. I have no problemo with climbers in other countries not

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Mark Gamble replied about a year ago.

By the by: how does another climber tick someone's ascent?

So Ondra gave his password to someone else and said: "here, go log my ascents"?

replied about a year ago.

No apologies required I'm happy to have the conversation/debate.

This site originated in Australia, so it has mostly Australian users. However, those who run the site definitely have ambitions for it to be used more broadly. So within that, it needs to

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Tom replied about a year ago.

Maybe instead of defining redpoint to be without preclipped quickdraws we add e.g. bluepoint which explicit state it is without?!

Robert Guggenberger replied about a year ago.

If this is really just a discussion about community profiles, i A) agree with foztr, that i'd rather see the community profiles gone than the differentiation between pink and redpoint and B) if community profiles somehow have to be, they should be logged

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replied about a year ago.

Expanding on a simple solution already suggested:

Create bluepoint, which means the draws were definitely not on and were placed during the climb. Then those that care can still maintain their standards and differentiate between bluepoint and pinkpoint

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replied about a year ago.

I have never heard about the term 'bluepoint' ever. The only mention of it I could find is in a slang dictionary on rockclimbing.com:

Bluepoint (n): When you belay someone on their send of a project. “I’m a 5.14 bluepointer!”

(Oh, I guess what was

... more

replied about a year ago.

A quick observation: google 'pink point vs red point' and you'll find discussions on mountain project and reddit, and UKC and tons of other sites going back forever and in many countries. This is definitely not restricted to Australia nor just to theCrag,

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replied about a year ago.

Succinctly expressed Robert Guggenberger. I agree with you.

replied about a year ago.

  1. "However, Wolfgang Güllich † later writes specificially that draws need to be off in order to claim a redpoint ascent (Wolfgang Güllich – Klettern heißt frei sein, p. 48)."

Wolfgang Gullich also Yo-Yo'd punks in the gym, but we don't differentiate for

... more

replied about a year ago.

Point 3 should definitely be addressed! Pink for girls and BLUE for boys!

Scott Godwin replied about a year ago.

Legend has it that in the early days of sport climbing in Australia if Malcom Matheson wanted to onsight a route that had the gear on it he would remove each quickdraw from the bolt, clip it to his harness, then place it back on the bolt before clipping

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Monty Curtis replied about a year ago.

Having climbed with Malcolm a lot that is exactly the sort of thing he did! He was/is super against any sort of stickclipping or preplacing high runners to protect bold starts.

Scott Godwin replied about a year ago.

I'd argue that the distinction between red point and pink point actually matters more for community managed profiles of elite climbers than it does for the masses. I'm a weak timid bumbly and nobody other than me cares how I tick routes on thecrag. I just

... more

replied about a year ago.

Scott Godwin - I heard that one on the enormocast, actually when they were debating the term pinkpoint - and in that episode they concluded that it was a term that 'needed to die'.

I'd suggest that with the existing community profiles, either an admin bulk

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replied about a year ago.

I've heard that the style of removing gear and replace on lead was called 'purple pointing'. I've only ever considered this a joke though? I am open to the idea of adding yo-yo as a tick type and I think it only missed out on the last round of new

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TeilzeitAbenteurer replied about a year ago.

Now that this drifted into tick type discussion: I always wonder how I should log an ascent, where my climbing partner climbed the route before me, left the quickdraws in place and I climb the route first go - pinkpoint flash would be correct, but is not

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Robert Mudie replied about a year ago.

Pink point is literally just the more accurate term. Saying it needs to die is ridiculous, it's another way to distinguish how we do a route. Otherwise why have a redpoint? Just call everything a tick.

replied about a year ago.

I'm not suggesting it should die, I think I've made that clear already.

I would challenge the assumption that all tick types have to be mutually exclusive. Why can't you have a tick that is both a redpoint and a pinkpoint?

If you look at the origins of

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replied about a year ago.

If you've preplaced trad gear, it's not a trad ascent.

Robert Mudie replied about a year ago.

So how do we define climbing something where we didn't flash or onsight it and we didn't have any preplaced gear?

Mark Gamble replied about a year ago.

Jackson - I resent being labelled a female.

:-/

replied about a year ago.

I still maintain the ascent style is a different thing from the gear style. So you can have ascent style=flash and gear style=pinkpoint. 2 different fields. And maybe those aren't red- or pink- point, maybe they are gear placed on lead, gear preplaced, top

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replied about a year ago.

replied about a year ago.

Thanks again for the insightful discussion everyone! We will certainly make the logging consistent after we have come to a decision and will keep you informed!

replied about a year ago.

I agree with people who are saying there is a real (and statistical) difference between climbing with or without gear pre-placed. But the software also has to work for all users. Some (most?) people don't care to make the distinction. I am a naturally

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replied about a year ago.

Adding another layer to the discussion, if you stick clip the first bolt on a sport route, but lay down the rest of the draws on lead, is it a pinkpoint or redpoint?

replied about a year ago.

Do I have an opinion about this? Communityprofiles: kinda Strange, because the people aren't using the site.

This brings me to sone other feature of the site, which I don't appreciate much, but don't really care: what do you do in a gym: you have to

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Gee Rad replied about a year ago.

My two hardest red points; Yesterday, and Kalbarri Gold (both 26, and all trad), both involved placing a nut or a sling with a stick. The sticks were all natural, organic and locally sourced, which is more than can be said for the protection I used.

Gino Lagazio replied about a year ago.

But were they gluten free Gee Rad

replied about a year ago.

Are your climbing shoes vegan friendly Gee Rad? You can hardly green point otherwise..

Gee Rad replied about a year ago.

Yes and yes. Next

Mark Gamble replied about a year ago.

Stick Point?

Moderators: we need a new tick category.

No wait! Then we'd need a Carrot Point as well, to go with stick or carrot.

Peter Betz replied about a year ago.

I'm a dinosaur of the eighties and I can undoubtedly say: for sure it is harder to climb a route redpoint than pinkpoint. I'm not sure that I would have been able to send my hardest routes, that I have done pinkpoint, in a redpoint style. Consequently I

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replied about a year ago.

Wow Peter, impressive logbook. It's reaching back into the eighties. I fully agree with you. Thanks for the statement.

replied about a year ago.

Mark Gamble how about stickclipping a carrot 8m from the ground without a stick clip?

Hadley Wood replied about a year ago.

Is there a way to report comments as suspicious? I'm looking at the comment two above mine, from Shakun Grover...

Hadley Wood replied about a year ago.

His profile seems to exist only to advertise the "IT company"

Leirn replied about a year ago.

Click on the spam button on the top right corner of its comment.

replied about a year ago.

What about reporting a profile?

Jack Cartwright replied about a year ago.

With regards to logging climbs RP/PP when stick clipping. I'm not sure about other climbing areas in Australia or the world, but a fair amount of sport climbs in SEQ have quite high/dangerous first bolts. If the landing is safe I am perfectly happy to

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replied about a year ago.

FYI, I have removed the spam message and profile

Hadley Wood replied about a year ago.

Thanks Simon. Not sure if the interface is different on a computer, but I couldn't find a 'report' button. I might just be blind.

Macciza a.k.a. Macca replied about a year ago.

My take on some of the points in this discussion: Community profiles ascents should be listed factually. If the draws were on or off should be noted... It doesn't matter if the person themselves calls all their ascents redpoints... Maestri would call his

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replied about a year ago.

Thanks Macca.

I need to find some climbers who were there in the Frankenjura to find out the origins of redpoint and the local ethic at the time around draws on / off. Anyone know if the Germans were pulling the rope at that point, or yo-yo'ing? I can't

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replied about a year ago.

Jackson Allan if they were yo-yo'ing, they denoted the ascent by "rotkreis" (red circle) instead of "rotpunkt" (red point). That distinction was always there.

Here's an excerpt from the "chronic" section of "Boulder magazine" number 3 (1983) for

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Hadley Wood replied about a year ago.

Could someone define "yo-yo" style for me?

replied about a year ago.

Yoyo is where you leave the gear and rope in to the point where you fell and you restart from the ground. Rope is not pulled with each attempt.

Thanks Christoph.

Robert Guggenberger replied about a year ago.

I have Güllichs "Sportklettern heute (1986)" and "Faszination Sportklettern (1992)" at home. In SKH he defines 3 Levels of skill linked to ascent style: Beginners climb in top-rope. Advanced climb in yo-yo. Experts climb flash. Consider that flash was

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replied about a year ago.

Thanks Robert!

TeilzeitAbenteurer replied about a year ago.

Thanks Robert! I would assume that at the time, Wolfgang might not have seen a necessity to define redpoint as sophisticated as it is done today and since people were not as connected all over the world as they are today, the definitions may have evolved

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replied about a year ago.

Redpoint and pinkpoint are distinct and mutually exclusive by some people's definitions of those terms, but not but other people's definitions (it is easy to google climbing forums and see people saying that pinkpoint is not used in their community, or

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Robert Guggenberger replied about a year ago.

Yeah, i think the traditional meaning or a terms origin are interesting for historical reasons mostly. As i said earlier, i would prefer to differentiate between pink- and red-point.

Daniel Gensemer replied about a year ago.

Alexei good comment; although I personally am an advocate of bunny suit tick types

replied about a year ago.

So we've established that colloquial ethics and terminology change over relatively short time periods. Are we still arguing that we should tie long-term data-definition decisions to that? Record the ascent details, not the current ethic or lack of.

replied about a year ago.

For argument's sake. As suggested above, you could just make up an entirely new tick type:

  • Redpoint: Draws not specified (on or off).
  • Pinkpoint: Draws were already on.
  • Bluepoint: Draws were off.

replied about a year ago.

From a data perspective, you only need two terms to specify that:

• Draws on • Draws off

And make the choice optional.

replied about a year ago.

Making an entirely new bluepoint (say) tick type would mean those of us who were using redpoint exclusively as "draws off" would need to go back and reclassify all those ascents as bluepoints. It wouldn't be possible for the system itself to do so

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Matt Minus replied about a year ago.

Bluepoint is already a thing - it's a belay tick. I bluepoint grade 30

Leirn replied about a year ago.

Creating new colors is definitely not the way to go. TheCrag should reflect what is really going on out there, not trying to define new rules to be able to handle every semantic details that only very few people would eventually use.

Each of us will use

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Phillip Booth replied about a year ago.

Jackson Allan "One might ask why not just top-rope the route if it's just about the physicality - but the inability to distinguish as to whether the top rope is acting as aid, and the practicalities of top roping overhung sport routes, requires leading."

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replied about a year ago.

Phillip Booth yes, I think the reasons you mentioned are incremental to what I described - stopping to clip, and the mental element of skipping draws also distinguish

Even on lead, if someone clips a draw above them, if the belayer is keeping them tight,

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replied about a year ago.

John Pitcairn makes sense!

I hope others are listening.

replied about a year ago.

These are some high level thoughts for attempting to resolve the lack of global consensus on the red vs pink point debate. The aim here is not to force anyone into either side, but to let them be as specific, or not, as they want, and make the defaults

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replied about a year ago.

Wow Ulfi ! That's a big elephant you're starting to chew. I hope it doesn't give you indigestion!

replied about a year ago.

Adrian Woodcraft - still a smaller elephant than trying to re-define redpoint for the world

replied about a year ago.

Ulfi which brings us basically to this discussion: https://github.com/theCrag/website/issues/3158

replied about a year ago.

Christoph Rauch - correct - this is the same summary but we assume not everyone is following us on gitHub..

Tobias Auth replied about a year ago.

Ulfi "So possibly we can repurpose 'clean' into 'redpoint' and then rename the current 'redpoint' into 'redpoint draws off'."

For me personally and I would guess for a lot of others "redpoint" is synonymous to "the ascent I desire". And if I desire

... more

replied about a year ago.

Tobias Auth thanks for your feedback - we will certainly NOT rename redpoint. Can you please explain why that would ruin your logbook? It wouldn't change at all - this is the point of the plan.

replied about a year ago.

Ulfi: We have "tick" and "clean", but those are not explicitly lead ascents.

For lead ascents there is "lead", which I've been using for clean repeat leads. I've only been using "redpoint" for the first clean lead (gear off, sport or trad), which is

... more

Leirn replied about a year ago.

For information, most of the other digital logbooks I tried (at least a dozen) only have 5 possibilities: OS, flash, redpoint, repeat, attempt. It seems to satisfy everyone.

In most cases climbers just want to remember what they have climbed. Having a

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Tobias Auth replied about a year ago.

Ulfi I thought you were saying that the current redpoint (and therefore all ascents logged as redpoint so far) would be renamed to "redpoint draws off". If that's not the case I misunderstood.

Hadley Wood replied about a year ago.

Maybe when one logs a climb on here, the tick type list can display 5 simple options at the top (Os, flash, RedP, rpt, att) and then have all the more detailed options (pink point, etc) further down the list for those who care more about the accuracy of

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Tobias Auth replied about a year ago.

Yeah, the CPR chart is a great feature and it requires accurate tick types. I think the crag.com should feature the most common tick types – like it does right now. But I think the addition of tick types that are not a representation of the reality

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bobschi replied about a year ago.

This comment has been removed.

replied about a year ago.

Redpoint draws off is definitely a reality. Maybe not the majority, but plenty real.

replied about a year ago.

As is trad pinkpoint, or sport greenpoint. Let's not have slack sport ethics determine what is or is not recordable in a way that allows searching and filtering in the future please.

replied about a year ago.

I fully agree. Sloppyness is a reality, as it is in every aspect of life for some people, but so is accuracy for the rest. That said, I'm a bit sceptical about having two types of red point tick types as well, and would prefer a redesign of the tick

... more

replied about a year ago.

Got that "This discussion is private access only" message too clicking on "more...". Clicking the Button "forum discussion" works.

replied about a year ago.

Kai / Christoph Rauch can you please email support with a screenshot and details the various links of the before / after page with that bug? I assume it's related to just hitting the 100 comments

replied about a year ago.

Brendan Heywood Done. I guess you're right, the system generates wrong URLs for the last two messages on page 1 of the thread. Details in the E-Mail.

replied 7 months ago.

My two cents:

Pink point seems to have emerged out of the need or the desire to distinguish difficulty of an ascent with draws on or off. Most people seem to acknowledge this fact, although the term 'pink point' is not universally used or accepted.

... more

Javi replied 7 months ago.

Totally agree with Dominik

Tobias Auth replied 7 months ago.

As a sport climber I totally agree. Not sure what trad climbers will think. I'm pretty sure they want to keep their hard trad pinkpoints. If that's both possible (implement what dominik said) and keep pinkpoint for trad, it should work out for everyone,

... more

replied 7 months ago.

If you are going to add a draws on/off then it should be possible to not register a value because sometimes neither is correct. Sometimes half the draws are on, because your partner didn’t make it and it’s now your turn. Or what about when the first draw

... more

Tobias Auth replied 7 months ago.

Yea, fully agree to Alexei. Just leaving red and pinkpoint would also make sense. The cpr thing about that doesn't really affect anyone right? And to get back to the initial question about community profiles: It's obviously consensus to call hard sends

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replied 7 months ago.

Alexei Drummond: Maybe for sport the fundamental question is whether the rope was weighted. But for trad, preplaced gear is often a LOT easier (and should make a difference to CPR).

Tobias Auth replied 7 months ago.

So leave everything as it is and change sport sends to redpoints on community profiles?

Mark Gamble replied 7 months ago.

And we need a tick for which type of quickdraws are being used. Some are harder to clip.

replied 7 months ago.

Lots of things (temperature, wind speed, presence of a hangover) affect the ability to redpoint on a given day, and thus affect CPR accuracy. But we don't log all those variables, so they aren't part of the explanatory model that the CPR is based on. The

... more

Climb that turkey replied 7 months ago.

The definitions are clear - if the gear or draws are pre-placed it’s a pinkpoint, and should be recorded as such. If people want to record a red point and call it as such, then they must repoint the route. I don’t think it’s possible to record an onsight

... more

replied 7 months ago.

I think the recent film 'rotpunkt' is a good example of it's definition.

It opens with Alex Megos trying Jumbo Love, with draws on. They didn't call the film 'rosapunkt'. Nowhere in the film do they bother to discuss draws on / draws off, because it is

... more

Sam Pfeiffer replied 7 months ago.

To chip in another opinion... To me what matters is climbing the route without hanging on the rope. There is people skipping clips, people that send putting the draws (harder), pre-clip the first bolt... I see no difference in the spirit of climbing a

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replied 7 months ago.

I agree with Climb that turkey

replied 7 months ago.

Climb that turkey says the definitions on thecrag.com are clear. True. But those definitions conflict with common usage of redpoint in the community, including as described in recent movie rotpunkt about the origins of the modern term. In that movie Alex

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replied 7 months ago.

The discussion around redpoint/pinkpoint somehow reminds of this cartoon:

https://xkcd.com/927/

replied 7 months ago.

Russ Clune talks about putting up the gear: https://youtu.be/SbWvFjUIt5k?t=768

replied 7 months ago.

Good point, I missed that bit. Perhaps we can reach out to Ross Clune and Norbert Sandner for comment on the debate.

Edit: I shot an email over to Norbert Sandner for comment.

adam palmer replied 11 weeks ago.

This comment has been removed.

replied 11 weeks ago.

Did you get any response Jackson Allan?

replied 11 weeks ago.

No response back from Norbert unfortunately Kai.

Sat 23 May

pink pointed a route and top roped a route at Upper Gara Gorge and mentioned Benji Dutaillis. • 1973 11 weeks ago

19 Heavy Metal Sport 18m, 5Very Good

Two laps — with Benji Dutaillis,Chloe

16 Hope Trad 25mGood

Quick dusk top rope — with Benji Dutaillis,Chloe

updated a route at Upper Gara Gorge. • 11 weeks ago

Updated the route 19 Heavy Metal.

Changed number of bolts from '4' to '5'.

Thu 7 May