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John Koster

@rockadventures
Australia • Rock climber
  • Member since: 2020
  • Favorites: 1
  • Following: 0
  • Followers: 0

Activity stream for John Koster

Activity stream for John Koster, configured from their own events. Events include updates, discussions and ticks.

Sat 26 Sep

John Koster, Adrian Woodcraft, oliver kerr, Leith and Monty Curtis commented in the discussion Original name at 23 Indian Head Sport 12m, 5. • 4 weeks ago

John Koster started this discussion 6 weeks ago.

Original name

I am the first ascentist. Please change this climbs name to "Indian Head". At the time of doing this climb i had no intent to offend anyone with the name choice. I am happy with the name being changed.

Adrian Woodcraft replied 5 weeks ago.

Once again, what was it before the name change?

Adrian Woodcraft replied 5 weeks ago.

Never mind, I found it... and the previous name was... OFFENSIVE???

Of course John had no intention of offending anyone!   And probably didn't, either.

On second thoughts, I suppose I should be offended if someone called me a Whiteskin, or a

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oliver kerr replied 5 weeks ago.

Neo-Marxist? What's that got up do with offensive names.

Also, yes, redskin is offensive. The American Heritage style guide advises that "the term redskin evokes an even more objectionable stereotype" than the use of red as a racial adjective by

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Adrian Woodcraft replied 5 weeks ago.

`

But in what way is "Redskin" racist?

Is it, for example, any more racist than when an Australian aboriginal (or part aboriginal) calls me a "white fella"?

Or I call him a "black fella"?

There's nothing racist or derogatory about either term. They

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Adrian Woodcraft replied 5 weeks ago.

And blow me down, since adding my previous post, I have just discovered that THERE IS a climb - IN AUSTRALIA - called "White Trash"!   WOW!

Oh dear! What a DREADFUL, racist, offensive, derogatory reference to ALL "white" people, everywhere in the

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John Koster replied 5 weeks ago.

As the first ascentist the naming of Redskin was a reference to the old Western movies that i watched as a child. Those movies still exists. The politically correct world has gone mad, or at least over the top, but i believe that too many words have been

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oliver kerr replied 5 weeks ago.

Adrian Woodcraft From your post, it seems like we both agree that we should have racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, etc, route names. Our disagreement is one of degree and not nature (apart from whether or not the word redskin is offensive or not). I would

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John Koster replied 5 weeks ago.

It only serves the greater good in your website, thegrag.com. You forget that local guide books that are printed and published and in circulation have the original names! Lets hope land managers only use thegrag.com. Again i am happy with the name change

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oliver kerr replied 5 weeks ago.

"The greater good in your website, thegrag.com"? 1. It's not my website. 2. Where do you think people not interested go to look see what climbing is like in Nowra. Do you think they are paying $50 for a guide or using the only decent free guide resource

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Monty Curtis replied 4 weeks ago.

I'm not going to enter the debate abut the validity of certain climb names, but some sort of consistency from thecrag would be handy. There are four other routes listed under "redskin" or "red skin" on thecrag - and none have been marked as offensive.

Adrian Woodcraft replied 4 weeks ago.

oliver kerr

"I reckon a good rule of thumb, is would you want it read out, without context, on the evening news? If not, then it’s probably not appropriate."

I think this single sentence is an excellent summing-up of the whole issue.   Well done!

John Koster replied 4 weeks ago.

I personally would be happy for Redskin to be read on the evening news (not that that would happen). Because we Australians although not perfect are an understanding mob and in general sensitive to the needs and troubles of the world. As such i happily

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Leith replied 4 weeks ago.

Adrian Woodcraft - you might be ok with "white trash", but would you be comfortable going up to one of the locals near the Junkyard Cave in Campbellton or TP in Nowra and calling them that to their face?

I think for adult (mature) audiences that sign up for no

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Leith replied 4 weeks ago.

oliver kerr pretty much agree with your whole post, especially the 2nd last paragraph!, except:

"The challenge is setting a universally agreed upon standard against which to measure the offensiveness of names."

I think the first challenge is actually getting

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Wed 23 Sep

John Koster added Mount Keira to their favorites. • 5 weeks ago

Sun 13 Sep

Support theCrag, Adrian Woodcraft, Benjimin, John Koster, and Monty Curtis commented in the discussion Offensive name at 23 Indian Head Sport 12m, 5. • 6 weeks ago

Support theCrag started this discussion 3 months ago.

Offensive name

This climb name has been reported as offensive. According to our policy and our current Stance as per this forum discussion the original name has been temporarily replaced by

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Monty Curtis replied 3 months ago.

Are you contacting the first ascentist? Many of these routes date back decades - it is highly unlikely they use thecrag.

Adrian Woodcraft replied 3 months ago.

When I read the admin's original post, I THOUGHT it said the name under review would be moved to a clickable field called AKA.

But none of the various climbs named "Sanitize review" (and yes, on an Australian website, it SHOULD be "sanitise") seem to

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Benjimin replied 3 months ago.

The original name (which has indeed been retained in the AKA field but currently tagged offensive) is a well known pejorative for Native Americans. Considering the theme used for naming other routes within this "Indian Wall"[sic] section, we can be pretty

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John Koster replied 6 weeks ago.

I am the first ascentist. Please change this climbs name to "Indian Head". At the time of doing this climb i had no intent to offend anyone with the name choice. I am happy with the name being changed.

replied 6 weeks ago.

Thanks John Koster - I have made the change.

updated a route at Nowra and mentioned John Koster. 20 6 weeks ago

Updated the route 23 Indian Head.

Changed name from 'sanitize review' name 'Indian Head'.

Edited route history.
20 Nov 1998First ascent: John Koster

Name changed in 2020 by First Ascensionist.