Activity stream for John Koster, configured from their own events. Events include updates, discussions and ticks.
John Koster, Adrian Woodcraft, oliver kerr, Leith and Monty Curtis commented in the discussion Original name at 23 ★ Indian Head Sport 12m, 5.
4 weeks ago
I am the first ascentist. Please change this climbs name to "Indian Head".
At the time of doing this climb i had no intent to offend anyone with the name choice.
I am happy with the name being changed.
Once again, what was it before the name change?
Never mind, I found it... and the previous name was... OFFENSIVE???
Of course John had no intention of offending anyone! And probably didn't, either.
On second thoughts, I suppose I should be offended if someone called me a Whiteskin, or a
Neo-Marxist? What's that got up do with offensive names.
Also, yes, redskin is offensive. The American Heritage style guide advises that "the term redskin evokes an even more objectionable stereotype" than the use of red as a racial adjective by
But in what way is "Redskin" racist?
Is it, for example, any more racist than when an Australian aboriginal (or part aboriginal) calls me a "white fella"?
Or I call him a "black fella"?
There's nothing racist or derogatory about either term. They
And blow me down, since adding my previous post, I have just discovered that THERE IS a climb - IN AUSTRALIA - called "White Trash"! WOW!
Oh dear! What a DREADFUL, racist, offensive, derogatory reference to ALL "white" people, everywhere in the
As the first ascentist the naming of Redskin was a reference to the old Western movies that i watched as a child. Those movies still exists. The politically correct world has gone mad, or at least over the top, but i believe that too many words have been
Adrian Woodcraft From your post, it seems like we both agree that we should have racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, etc, route names. Our disagreement is one of degree and not nature (apart from whether or not the word redskin is offensive or not). I would
It only serves the greater good in your website, thegrag.com. You forget that local guide books that are printed and published and in circulation have the original names!
Lets hope land managers only use thegrag.com.
Again i am happy with the name change
"The greater good in your website, thegrag.com"? 1. It's not my website. 2. Where do you think people not interested go to look see what climbing is like in Nowra. Do you think they are paying $50 for a guide or using the only decent free guide resource
I'm not going to enter the debate abut the validity of certain climb names, but some sort of consistency from thecrag would be handy. There are four other routes listed under "redskin" or "red skin" on thecrag - and none have been marked as offensive.
"I reckon a good rule of thumb, is would you want it read out, without context, on the evening news? If not, then it’s probably not appropriate."
I think this single sentence is an excellent summing-up of the whole issue. Well done!
I personally would be happy for Redskin to be read on the evening news (not that that would happen).
Because we Australians although not perfect are an understanding mob and in general sensitive to the needs and troubles of the world. As such i happily
Adrian Woodcraft - you might be ok with "white trash", but would you be comfortable going up to one of the locals near the Junkyard Cave in Campbellton or TP in Nowra and calling them that to their face?
I think for adult (mature) audiences that sign up for no
oliver kerr pretty much agree with your whole post, especially the 2nd last paragraph!, except:
"The challenge is setting a universally agreed upon standard against which to measure the offensiveness of names."
I think the first challenge is actually getting
John Koster added Mount Keira to their favorites.
5 weeks ago
Support theCrag, Adrian Woodcraft, Benjimin, John Koster, Ulfi and Monty Curtis commented in the discussion Offensive name at 23 ★ Indian Head Sport 12m, 5.
6 weeks ago
This climb name has been reported as offensive. According to our policy and our current Stance as per this forum discussion the original name has been temporarily replaced by
Are you contacting the first ascentist? Many of these routes date back decades - it is highly unlikely they use thecrag.
When I read the admin's original post, I THOUGHT it said the name under review would be moved to a clickable field called AKA.
But none of the various climbs named "Sanitize review" (and yes, on an Australian website, it SHOULD be "sanitise") seem to
The original name (which has indeed been retained in the AKA field but currently tagged offensive) is a well known pejorative for Native Americans. Considering the theme used for naming other routes within this "Indian Wall"[sic] section, we can be pretty
I am the first ascentist. Please change this climbs name to "Indian Head". At the time of doing this climb i had no intent to offend anyone with the name choice. I am happy with the name being changed.
Thanks John Koster - I have made the change.
Ulfi updated a route at Nowra and mentioned John Koster.
6 weeks ago
Changed name from 'sanitize review' name 'Indian Head'.
Name changed in 2020 by First Ascensionist.