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This is a public discussion for Cruel Sea.

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Devin started this discussion 6 months ago.

Legit lower lip traverse

Howdy yall,

Earlier I noticed someone's distinction between "Aquarius V6"and "Lower Lip Traverse V7" at the Black Cave. And I propose recognizing another unique (albeit eliminate) problem in the cave, and that is the Lower Lip Traverse but topping out all the way to the left and not using the juggy bloc/vertical rail above where the hueco is at all.

Anyway, the comment had said that some people find the LLT soft for V7, but that this is because they've unwittingly done Aquarius, which goes direct to some juggy stuff to top out instead of the real LLT which traverses all the way to the left end of the wall (via going down to the little hueco and then a cool foot first sequence to some good crimps) and THEN going up to the juggy stuff to top out.

I propose that this other unique line (Lower Lip Traverse topping out far left without using any of the juggy bit) be recognized.

I think this is a pretty logical line for the cave and I find it a bit weird that the normal LLT has the juggy bit "off" for the majority of the problem, but then that same juggy bit is "on" after you've gone a few moves past it.

If you're gonna take the energy to skip that juggy bit for part of a climb, why not just call that juggy spot off for the ENTIRE LLT?

Calling the juggy bit "off" for the entire problem makes it, imo, a slightly-less-contrived contrivance.

Plus who doesn't want yet another eliminate in an already packed sector to fluff their scorecard with??

Jack Folkes replied 6 months ago.

The whole aquaris thing was because of me. I was the one who said it was soft and I even did it going all the way to the hueco just not all the 360, feet first stuff because that seemed pointless. "Aquarius" was named and added by someone else.

Have you climbed it? LLT, while being eliminate, really doesn't climb like it is eliminate.

Devin replied 6 months ago.

Hey Jack,

Thanks for your input!

To answer your question, if we're getting really technical about it and saying that LLT involves going to that lil' hueco and then up to that previously "off" juggy bit, then no, I haven't done LLT.

I started as per LLT/Aquarius but eliminated that juggy bit for the entirety of the climb and topped out to the left of that juggy area without using it at all.

I'm sure the normal LLT climbs really good, and I rekon the "variant" that I did doesn't change the grade, it's just more of a personal preference thing for me why I didn't want to do the normal LLT.

I either wanted to do it with that juggy bit "on" the whole time (in which case I'd do Aquarius) or "off" the whole time (thus doing the thing I did). I just couldn't bring myself to do it per the normal LLT beta/sequence of hold-being-off-to-create-crux-but-then-surprise-it's-on-again-right-after, it is just a little too contrived for my tastes.

But, then again, I'm sure if I ever finished everything in that cave and had nothing else to do, then I'd probably change my mind and try it.

Peter Jeavons replied 3 months ago.

Hey Devin, i checked with Phil Staples who put up LLT and your way is the original line, the weird eliminate way described that tge video links to on thecrag is not, hence why it feels contrived

Matt Minus replied 3 months ago.

Yeah I've been climbing there with Phil a few times and he says that most of the topos and routes on theCrag down there aren't correct - I've been encouraging him to correct the record as he's one of the handful who climbed with or is in some cases the FAer.

King Hii replied 3 months ago.

Cool beans, thanks for the info

yeah it would be nice to get a comprehensive list of the blocs in Sydney, with detailed pix of the start holds and the lines in question

so basically a new high quality guide would be sweet

Matt Minus replied 3 months ago.

You mean like the one Mike Forward is working on and hoping to release early next year?

Devin replied 3 months ago.

Weird, that msg from "king hii" was me, musta been logged into his account on the computer I used

But hell yes, I'm stoked to see this new guide! Early next year as in like a few months from now I hope

replied 3 months ago.

Devin that is super weird - I can't see how that would have happened, can you please email us with any details at all (ie in internet cafe??) that might help us track down what happened there and fix it.

Brendan (admin)

Matt Minus replied 15 days ago.

FYI Phil has updated the routes with the proper names and sequences

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