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This is a public discussion in Dingo Creek.

Showing all 22 messages.

Will Vidler started this discussion 9 days ago.

So the grade 25 trad line "Stoph's PROJ" is still an unclimbed project and not to be tried by others at the moment? Sorry if this question seems silly, I just thought I'd check because moderate cracks are the thing I'm most psyched on at the moment and if there is a new one in town I'd love to have a go!!

replied 8 days ago.

Will, it's just been posted as a fresh crag, so of course it will be a project and getting into a debate whether you can have a trad project just isn't worth it. You will see I just added another crack project in the area. Give the guy some time to do it . There's enough existing lines you haven't done before you antagonise people over a crack that has probably taken them hours to clean. Cheers

Graham Dowden replied 8 days ago.

So what does "project" mean in the context of a clean crack with "Route History: First Ascent: Christoph Gill" ? Best ask Julian Saunders who entered that description

Neil Monteith replied 8 days ago.

Don't be a dick and stay off it is what it means. Christoph I imagine spent time finding, cleaning and working this line and he will do it soon. There are 15 other routes you can throw yourself on at this crag in the meantime - and obv many hundreds of kilometres of cliffline that you can find your own route at.

replied 8 days ago.

Graham, you can go to the adjacent Slots, do all Rods routes and then mark them as don't bother, as that seems to be a hobby of yours

Graham Dowden replied 8 days ago.

Calm down hostile people, it was just a polite question to clarify the confusing simultaneous terms "Project" (normally meaning not-yet climbed) and named "First Ascent". It's no big deal and I wish the first ascentionist well on what looks like a fine line.

Neil Monteith replied 8 days ago.

First Ascent = an ascent using aid or resting on gear. This is quite common when a route is attempted "ground up" on trad - as you may have to rest on gear to dig out dirt from cracks or clean dangerous loose rock. First Free Ascent = an all free ascent with no resting or aiding.

Will Vidler replied 8 days ago.

Yo I'm sorry for all this. I had no intention at all of stealing it or trying it if Christoph hadn't done it yet, I was just psyched and thought that because it had been given a grade and a description, and that whilst I thought it probably was still a project, there was no harm in asking about it? I certainly didn't mean to deliberately antagonise or upset. I also didn't realise until (soon) afterwards that the crag had only just been published here (I assumed I had written it off as something minor and chossy in the past) and I wondered if maybe the route had been climbed, graded and written up as such but not yet given a name. I understand that it may have seemed opportunistic and ignorant and so I apologise for that but I can assure you I was neither looking to start a debate on the ethics of a 'trad project' nor get embroiled in some kind of project stealing feud. I have spent multiple days cleaning the odd crack and I know how much it would suck if all the work was done and someone else came along and did it before you get the chance. So, I apologise for the ambiguous wording of my initial comment that may have made it seem that I was ready to charge down there with my rack and have a go, I hope there has been no harm done and that my general excitement and curiosity can cease to be a cause for antagonism and I wish Christoff speed in his ascent so a rad sounding route can be opened. -Will

replied 8 days ago.

hopefully there will be 2 trad routes, and you can green point the others.

Julian Saunders replied 8 days ago.

Hey. No big deal. There was no button for mixed that I saw (perhaps i missed it? I will have another look). The route has a bunch of bolts, but also a bunch of cams. I was hesitant to put it in as a sports route because that would be potentially quite dangerous. I'll add a more detailed description when it's completed.

Stoph has yet to finish equipping the route as he ran out of glue with one bolt to go! Poor bastard! And there is still some cleaning to do down low.

No harm done, and I appreciate your interest.

My daughter did one of her projects on Sunday, Tangled. As we were walking back she says to me, knowing that I had added the crag to the database just a few days prior: "Dad, do you think we will see people here now"? "Noooo"! I said, explaining that was rather unlikely given that it is a long way to drive and there are heaps of closer crags for almost every climber around, and that we will have done our last few projects before people even realise there is a cool new crag to visit. Six minutes later a crew walked in and hopped straight on one of her routes. My giddy god, she was excited.

Will Vidler replied 8 days ago.

Hey Julian. Awesome to hear that your daughter got to see someone jump on her route!! thats so rad, and thanks for clarifying about the mixed route in question. To mark a route as a mixed climb you just have to mark it as trad and then you can select that it has a certain number of bolts. Even if you just say there is one bolt it will change it to mixed. Thanks again man!!

Jason Nguyen replied 8 days ago.

I think we should burn Will at the stake for this thread... All in favour say aye.

Evan Wells replied 7 days ago.

Dont need to.

Lucas Corroto replied 7 days ago.


Julian Saunders replied 7 days ago.

Ah huh! Thanks for the tip. I'll do it now.

replied 7 days ago.

Hey Vanessa Wills and Julian Saunders, just out of interest, why are only FAs listed, but no FFAs? If FFAs were entered, Will Vidler probably wouldn't have asked in the first place.

PS: Please don't ask why I follow the discussion, I don't know myself.

Mark Gamble replied 7 days ago.

Kai, Read Neil's reply above.

Neil Monteith replied 7 days ago.

To further muddy the waters you can technically have a first ascent which is still all free but listed just as a 'first ascent'. The easist way of knowing if a route is still a project is if the name has 'project' in it or it has the project tag applied to it on thecrag listing (a relativly new feature)

replied 7 days ago.

Neil Monteith thanks for the reply. I'm totally aware of that but I don't understand why not listing a FFA if it was one. What exactly is your definition of a FFA?

Neil Monteith replied 6 days ago.

As data entered into thecrag is done via lots of different people - each individual interprets how they want to enter the info. Id suggest in this instance Julian just selected FA on all routes as a default. Ive seen people use FA or FFA interchangably to record the names of first free ascents. The only time you may see both FA and FFa listed on a route is when an earlier ascent may have been aided/rested by one person, then a different person may have freed it at a later date (common with routes done in the 60s and 70s where 'free' climbing wasnt considered as important as it is now.) In the end the data on thecrag is whatever we make it. Some people love recording all the details (who bolted a route, who tried it first and then who did the first free ascent). All this info can be recorded but most of the time it isnt.

Julian Saunders replied 6 days ago.

Thanks for explaining Neil. You are correct. My only interest is indicating whose project it is. I don't pay much attention to the semantics of first ascent terminology.

replied 6 days ago.

thanks guys, got it. happy cragging.

Showing all 22 messages.

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