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Discussion: Edelrid Giga Jul Belay Device

  • Started: 9 weeks ago on Sat 19th Sep 2020

Public discussion This is a public discussion in World.

James Thomson started this discussion 9 weeks ago.

Edelrid Giga Jul Belay Device

I just got one - I thought it would be a great addition to my rack - especially due to assisted braking feature: a) we've just gone to 7.7 mm half ropes b) I do lots of lead rope soloing on 10 mm single and thought the assisted mode would be good during the abseil phase (i.e., lock off to clip pro above abseil device)

Device is advertised on the outside as suitable for 7.1 - 10.0 mm rope, but when you read the instruction manual on the inside the different modes have different rope ranges. Very complicated - very German!

Can anyone see the logic behind the detailed instruction rope diameter specifications?

Jared Tyerman replied 9 weeks ago.

Single rope, half rope, double rope. The diameters suitable for each

replied 9 weeks ago.

Actually, single, half and twin. (For some bizarre reason "half rope" and "double rope" are the same -- but twin is the different one.)

Jared Tyerman replied 9 weeks ago.

Yep my bad 👍. Twin

James Thomson replied 9 weeks ago.

I think a lot of thought has gone into deciding those rope diameters, based on testing, the manufactured dimensions, risk assessment and calculation.

For single rope use the high end (10 mm) must be set by the slot size and the low end by minimum available single rope diameter (8.6 mm). It looks like they have a preference for us to use it in assisted mode because in manual they're putting the smaller diameters in the user beware category (cleat dimensions?).

For half rope use it looks like assisted is the way to go because in manual 8.6 - 9.0 mm is in the user beware category.

I'm still not sure why it can catch a fall on a twin at 7.1 mm but only a 7.9 mm on a half - perhaps it is risk assessment based on the energy being spread between twin ropes (or perhaps the minimum diameter half rope considered/tested was 7.9 mm (not 7.7 mm like mine))?

All my own speculation and I wonder if others have wondered about this? I'd like to hear your views.

I'm off on a climbing trip this weekend, excited to test it out and feed-back.

replied 9 weeks ago.

Would be great if Edelrid answers such questions directly. Maybe Ralf Geiger could point Edelrid to this discussion.

Luke Doherty replied 9 weeks ago.

My guess: it is because twin ropes are both always clipped into the same pieces of gear. In a fall this means that both ropes are taking "equal" load.

For half ropes, each rope is clipped separately into different pieces of protection, this means that in a fall one rope will predominately take the load.

As such, for a given level of friction/resistance added by the belay device, it is easier to hold a fall/load with twin ropes than with half ropes.

replied 9 weeks ago.

replied 9 weeks ago.

What Luke said -- with twin ropes, you're always braking on two ropes, so will have twice the braking force -- so can catch falls with thinner ropes than in half/double style.

EDELRID replied 9 weeks ago.

Hi guys, we saw the conversation and wanted to join in. We hope that this is ok for you.

The Giga Jul is certified for rope diameters going from 7,1 to 10,0 mm. In the user manual, we give indications on what rope diameters work best for the two different belay modes (Automatic or Manual mode) and the type of rope being used (Single, Half or Twin ropes) according to our tests.

Please note that these values are only meant as indications. The number of factors influencing the degree of braking power support being almost infinite (angle in which the rope enters the device, the weight of the climber and belayer, amount of friction, state of the rope, locking carabiner being used, type of route, etc.), it is ultimately always up to the user to choose the right set-up to suit his/her purpose and experience.

Generally, the closer you get to the limit values (for example, belaying with ropes close to 7,1 mm in diameter), the more accurate and experienced the user needs to be.

Greetings from the AllgÀu!

replied 9 weeks ago.

EDELRID welcome to theCrag. Great to see that you guys responded. Thanks

Mark Gamble replied 9 weeks ago.

I'm a bit disconcerted about your faux pas James Thomson:

"I'm still not sure why it can catch a fall on a twin at 7.1 mm...."

Twin ropes - ice ropes, are meant to be double clipped at every runner. If someone were to take a lead fall on a 7.1mm rope, I would definitely retire it following that event.

James Thomson replied 8 weeks ago.

Thanks everyone for the comments. Thanks Edelrid for bringing us these devices to make our climbing experiences better - I imagine it isn't easy to invent, test, certify and market!

viceionic replied 8 weeks ago.

Got your awesome technology, I love it.

James Thomson replied 8 weeks ago.

Device works well on 10mm rope in top roping situation in manual mode (Pete Hill in "Rock Climbing " calls what we do bottom roping - the belayer runs everything from the bottom of the crag - but locally we don't make the distinction). Rope glides nicely when lowering the climber.

In assisted mode device locks off tightly if you stop when abseiling on twin 10 mm rope.

Impressed

Will test on skinny half ropes on lead shortly.

replied 7 weeks ago.

If the device is really an all rounder... I watched the review above, and comments etc. But how well does it work for normal / common lead belaying, with a single say, 9.5mm rope. Paying out rope slowely / quickly in assisted mode (if it were to replace the functionality of a grigri). Do you somehow need to use the guide/thumb loop whatever while feeding rope quickly?

replied 7 weeks ago.

Yes, you need the thumb loop to pay out slack quickly. In my brief experience it was very intuitive. Easier than a grigri.

James Thomson replied 6 weeks ago.

It worked well in Manual mode with 1/2x 7.7mm (it wasn't fall tested - but confident it would work).

For abseiling in auto mode with 1/2 x 7.7mm it was too grabby for my liking but in manual was smooth.

Andreas Aachen replied 6 weeks ago.

Def not feeding slack our as easy as a grigri! Neither is lowering as smooth as with an atc or grigri; and abseiling is also not as convenient as with an atc. It really is a bit of everything, but not the best of everything!

replied 6 weeks ago.

Oh thanks Andreas, good to get your opinion. Could be a good multipitch device; but maybe not general cragging (if you've got GriGri already).

replied 6 weeks ago.

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Philip replied 6 weeks ago.

We also have it but got to the same opinion as Andreas Aachen. We never use it because while sport climbing the grigri is way smoother and in multi pitches the ATC feels better for lowering and quite similar for belaying.

replied 6 weeks ago.

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ThomasMertens replied 6 weeks ago.

My way: Edelrid Jul2 for sport climbing, Petzl Reverso for multipitch/abseiling.

Daniel Rablin replied 6 weeks ago.

Been using mine for about 2 months. Replaced my regular atc and grigri entirely. Also, this is just my opinion so take it as you wish

Feeding slack in assisted braking mode has been really nice on ropes no thicker than 9.5-9.8.

I've tried a few different methods for lowering (as the belayer) and found that with a little practice, you can get quite smooth. Thumb-in and rotating the wrist back, and other hand on brake side to help modulate speed of rope coming through.

As with the previous megajul, the assisted braking makes it difficult to abseil/rappel, so I use manual mode with prussik backup.

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