Discussion: Sit/stand start

  • Started: 8 weeks ago on Sun 29th Nov 2020

Public discussion This is a public discussion in World.

Libanga started this discussion 8 weeks ago.

Sit/stand start

Wouldn’t it be practical to have a specific choice for boulder problems for sit or stand start ?

replied 8 weeks ago.

Suppose it would be interesting. I think having the topo start at the ground for a sit, or on higher holds for a stand is fine. Description starting with stand or sit too.

replied 8 weeks ago.

The most common way is to add a hashtag in the description eg #sd

Libanga replied 8 weeks ago.

Yes, but then, the problem with hashtag is that there is no translation in other languages (I’m writing in French, topo for Switzerland)

In many topo you can give 2 cotations for a problem , and it’s easier, because you don’t have to create 2 problems but just one

replied 8 weeks ago.

Yes, but you want to have 2 entries so you can tick them easily - they will also have different grades no?

#sd seems also to be very common in Fremch (see FB for example:

Libanga replied 8 weeks ago.

Ok, i did not think about the ticking problem, and then it begins to be a bigger implementation, but it could be great, one day, that when you tick a problem, you have to choose the sit/stand start and it selects automatically the difficulty...

I’ll do it the way you say until that day, Thanks

replied 8 weeks ago.

Is #sd for sit-down or stan-ding start? If you you are introducing a convention, I'd prefer if tags were more self-explanatory,e.g. #sitstart or #standingstart

replied 8 weeks ago.

#sd is not a invention on our side it is the most common abbreviation for sitstart in many guidebooks

replied 8 weeks ago.

I've been adding it to the description like (sit start). I certainly would not understand what #sd means on a route without someone explaining it to me.

Libanga replied 8 weeks ago.

Actually, i’ve got another problem with the hashtag method to write it : if there is a place with 15 boulder problems and for 14 of them, the distinction sit/start is pertinent, then, with the actual method of writing it, it is written 29 problems, but in fact there are just 15, and it give the fealing that the place is bigger than in reality...

Ok, i know, i’m pushing a bit further the discussion, and it’s quite ok now, but i really don’t have the fealing right now that is so good to write boulder topos as it is for other style of climbing, and that it could « easily » be better, with things like that and a bit of rethinking the arrows on the photos in topo mode.

Konrad replied 8 weeks ago.

As an idea, maybe add a method to have 'Variants' with unique descriptions and different assigned grades in a single route? That way, you avoid the '20 routes on a tiny bloc' issue.

Would also be useful for some sport climbs IMO.

replied 8 weeks ago.

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replied 8 weeks ago.

"Variants" are a very good idea. +1 from me. It solves a few issues at once, also for example the problem of routes that are still climbed as aid but have been freed, crags like "Ali Baba" in Rodellar, with myriads of variants for the same route.

I reckon, however, that the implementation of this might be quite the effort. But I suppose it's worth it!

Libanga replied 8 weeks ago.

Ok... but i did look but did not find any info on how to implement it... perhaps because I was on iPad. Can you link me to a page where it is explain or tell me the button I don’t find “create a variant” ?

replied 8 weeks ago.

Libanga Sorry that was a misunderstanding. It was a suggestion to the thecrag staff to implement this feature. Currently, this is not yet possible.

Libanga replied 8 weeks ago.

Thanks, i was feeling a bit stupid... 😂

replied 8 weeks ago.

In my opinion sit-start and standing-start are very strong candidates for defining them as tags - maybe even as actual route fields (for boulders). Each boulder has definitely either a sit-start or a standing-start. And some have both (as a variation).

There are already a lot of route tags that you rarely see in use because they are sort of optional, e.g. reachy, athletic, etc. Sit/standing start I would consider rather mandatory for defining a boulder problem. Hence the need for providing a structured tag or route field by theCrag.

I would actually challenge if "variants" is such a necessary feature. On the one hand I can imagine this being rather complex to implement. On the other hand I feel that it is not needed for most crags.

Christoph Rauch looking at Ali Baba, I agree, this crag looks like a mess just by reading the route names. But how many crags like this exist compared to the total number of crags? And how would you answer questions like "Is Ali Hulk a variant of Ali Baba or a variant of Hulk?

replied 8 weeks ago.

Dominik I'm not saying it's a necessary feature, just that it could be very useful. At least in my home area, there are loads of routes with "direct starts" or "direct finishes", "left variant", "right variant" … you get the point. And I thought that if the feature can solve more than just this issue, all the better.

Concerning Ali Hulk and Ali Baba I'd say just look at the first ascent. The one that came first is the original line. Variants are then routes that drive off the original or merge into it at some point.

Structured tags are nice, but they don't touch the issue of having the "same" route listed twice or more in the index.

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