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Thu 31 May

Karl Bromelow edited a route at Grampians. 65 discuss 22 days ago

Created 1 route.

Created the route 14 Frogilisk.

Follow Frog to just below the now pegless crux (pitch 2) and cop out by traversing right into Basilisk. Follow this up the shallow chimney until it is possible to make a short airy traverse back left into Frog at the top of the third pitch. Continue as for Frog on the third pitch.

Route history.
  • First Ascent: Karl Bromelow, Kai Seth Robertson, Seb Johnson & Andrew Johnson, 22 Apr

Neil Monteith started this discussion 8 weeks ago.

Does this really need a separate listing?

replied 8 weeks ago.

yeah; copouts (as opposed to link-ups) don't usually warrant a new listing unless you cover significantly new terrain.

Karl Bromelow replied 23 days ago.

Probably doesn't warrant a new listing if you consider to be the font of all climbing wisdom but as there is plenty of other garbage on here I saw it as a frivolous record of my own pointless meanderings on rock. Does it need any more validation than that? Feel free to demand it's removal if the world is a worse place as a result of this digital blip in a sea of inconsequentiality.

Karl Bromelow replied 23 days ago.

If you wonder what I mean by garbage here is a (possibly) good example: EDITED OUT TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT It's hard to know but this fella has definitely posted stuff on here which was unclimbable choss, later removed. It's up to you, Neil and Goshen. Speak with the moderators and get Frogilisk removed if you think it necessary. I honestly didn't expect it to upset anyone. It is a way of getting from bottom to top without tackling the crux of Frog now the peg is gone and is an enjoyable climb even if it does cover little new territory.

replied 23 days ago.

Hey Karl. I don't think the question was if your variation is good or not, but rather if it has a significant amount of new climbing in it. If yes, leave it. If not, just add a comment to the original line instead.

Cheers, Andreas

Karl Bromelow replied 23 days ago.

It has up to maybe 25ft of previously unrecorded climbing in it. Is that significant or not? I couldn't judge. It is more than a cursory step to the right and back again. Kai is 11 years old and Seb 7 and they were on the first ascent. I thought it nice to record their day out.

replied 23 days ago.

Well that's the only thing Goshen and Neil asked for. Only record it if it has significant new climbing in it.

Regarding its nice to record their day out: Absolutely! This is what thecrag is for to record your good time climbing, However, you can find probably thousands of ascents on thecrag where people mentioned that they climbed the route in some sort of variation to the original variant. Just imagine everyone would create a new line? All original lines would just disappear in the noise... I know for you guys this was probably a very memorable moment, but I also assume that most other have the same feeling when they have a good time at the cliff....

replied 23 days ago.

All good, i think you explained it well in the first reply, i guess it's quite reasonable to list an easier variant... I only chimed in because Neil did, and i guess we are attempting to avoid the 'slippery slope' of worthless climbs like you linked to, but we can rest easy.

Neil Monteith replied 23 days ago.

If it contains new climbing (rather than a linkup) im totally happy for it to stay. My comment was really just a discussion point as there has been a lot of questionable linkups added to thecrag recently which do muddy the guides. Mt Column and The Gallery are ridicoulus with 'new' routes.

Karl Bromelow replied 22 days ago.

Well it must be a link up of sorts. It links Frog with Basilisk and back again. So I guess it has to go if Neil feels that way. So be it. I don't want to argue. Sorry for creating a situation that bothered some. Cheers all, Karl

Neil Monteith replied 22 days ago.

Didn't you say earlier that it included 25ft of new climbing (thus not just a linkup - but more an variant?) I'm not the judge, jury and executioner BTW.

Karl Bromelow replied 22 days ago.

Aah, Neil, I don't know what to call it. All link ups have some new climbing in them. I don't know where the dividing line is. I also can't imagine that the "new climbing" involved hasn't been done before by someone at Bundaleer. It's a pretty well trodden crag. I'd rather talk about it in terms of "previously unrecorded". It probably isn't worth all of this correspondence.

I went climbing with some young boys. We climbed a variation of a route in the guidebook. I took some photos. I thought it would be nice to record it on here but there was no entry for that variation so I created one, with Kai and Seb named on the "first ascent". We hadn't climbed Frog and we hadn't climbed Basilisk and Frogilisk seemed like an amusing name. Several weeks later I chanced on some peoples queries about the necessity of the entry. No big deal really. It's simply climbing. We love it and live for it and it's not worth getting too upset about the peripherals, like this.

I understand how it might lead to some debate when guidebooks are being compiled but there we go. I would not expect to see Frogilisk in any comprehensive definitive guidebook. I would not be composing a letter of complaint to the editor. And for what it's worth I see printed authoritative guidebooks as the ultimate source of best information regarding routes and history, not websites such as which, useful as they can be, are clearly more open to abuse and false or pointless claims.

I think I'm done on this one now.

Cheers, Karl